pestojesto wrote:

Again, this post is about location. Many twirlers don't even know if they have qualified until the end of June, for the event a month later. Those folks don't necessarily plan for 12 months in advance. So until we've all planned an event of this magnitude, I think it is hard for any of us to judge.
I haven't seen many suggestions of possible locations with the number of gyms required, near to each other. Does anyone know a good location?

I'm sorry, but I feel that not knowing a location for Nationals is still disrespectful to twirlers. There's a heck of a difference in financial and organizational planning (especially if you are a team or corp, with 50+ members!) if you need to go to California or Florida. (I just picked those states out of a hat to make a point--don't make anything out of that!) Yes, not all twirlers know if they qualify... but you have to admit, you know a good many of them know they will, and it's all but certain they'll go. So they need to plan.

While I haven't planned any events the scale of AYOP, I have run events from scratch. And if I knew I had people coming from all over the country, I would be disservicing them by not knowing what was going on for next year... especially when this situation was known at least two years in advance. If I had been put in a position like this, I would have had the decency to say that I dropped the ball, and was unable to make an event happen this year, and plan for next time. That's just me. I remember hearing rumblings about this for quite some time, so it's not like it caught them by surprise! I would feel differently, and much more sympathetic, had this been sudden news. But with years to plan ahead, there's really no excuse.

I think AYOP has worked themselves into a corner... you probably haven't seen many good alternate locations suggested because there probably AREN'T any good alternate locations. I can't think of a single place that compares in scale to Notre Dame that has affordable availability for an entire week unless you've booked it years in advance. While Vegas may be a good bet, it also books up years in advance. You'd think if AYOP had it, they'd already say so.

The fact that no communication is coming from them seems to indicate they don't have a set plan. I may be wrong... in fact, I hope I am. But the silence coming from them does not bode well, and in any case, does not make them look good.

This has been known for a while. The city has been pushing to keep us at Notre Dame because we are their biggest revenue in the summer. The local economy gets a nice boost while we are there. People already have rooms reserved in South Bend. I hope we can all get our money back and find something new if the location changes. For an event of this size, at this late date, there can't be many choices.

My feeling is (not fact)that AYOP and South Bend have had such a good relationship that neither wants to loose the other. I am betting that NBTA officials are trying their best to work out a plan that keeps AYOP in the city. It just may look a little different because the venues will need to be different.

I agree with Luckytwirl ^^! Remember the old saying "NO NEWS IS GOOD NEWS" or "Don't worry Be Happy"! Everything is going to work out just fine!

My feeling is that they will keep in South Bend too. It would be a lot to take on to organize it to be in a different place. But we'll seeeeee!

vnhsdance wrote:

especially when this situation was known at least two years in advance.

I work in the design industry, frequently on institutional projects. Most of the time Master Plans set schedules for construction and renovation that are 'ideals' but don't actually happen in those timeframes - sometimes projects are done out of sequence, are sped up (especially when a big donor comes along) or very often, at a later date, due to lack of proper funding. I seem to recall that folks thought the 2008 AYOP wouldn't happen due to the schedule Notre Dame had for renovation of the complex. Just food for thought.

I actually e-mailed over to American Baton, the AYOP powers that may be , almost 2 years ago when there was talk at 2006 AYOP with a couple of suggestions for locations. My daughter went on a recruiting trip to Boise State University. I was shocked when I saw their Taco Bell arena and it's attached facilities. It mirrored Notre Dame facility almost completely. I have also seen the facilities available at Colorado State and University of Utah. All three of these and I'm sure there are dozens of others would work quite well. Now, I have no idea what has taken place in the past 2 years since the "talk of relocation" began or what inquiries have been made, but I would suggest that there are many facilities that would suit AYOP's purposes quite well. If there was uncertainty as to the availability of Notre Dame for 2009 then a plan should have been set in place a new location, 2 years ago. Does AYOP's loyalty to South Bend overshadow it's loyalty to the athletes? My own personal thought is YES! You are welcome to come to your own conclusions.....

The Powers that be are so afraid of change. That is pretty clear since not much has changes in many... years. I welcome some change. It would be refreshing and good for the organization. Also, people need to get rid of the tent villages that are erected inside the facility. Its rather embarrassing that people do that. This is an indoor sporting event not a refugee camp.

GBSS, I understand what you are saying with renovation schedules being changed and moved around. However, it still doesn't really seem to excuse them from listing (or at least exploring) other potential sites and locations.

Now maybe they have, in fact, been looking into this all along. But if so, they should have already been able to announce such possible locations to the twirling community at large.

I would actually be pretty disappointed if they find a way to keep AYOP in Indiana... this all could be a blessing in disguise if they played their cards right, and a chance to give people from other locations in the country a chance to go somewhere new. As mentioned once before in this thread, the West Coast have been paying an arm and a leg every year to do this by flying, while so many other people can just drive (which isn't even an option for us!) Lots of other organizations manage to move their Nationals around, so it's clearly possible. It would just seem to indicate their continued unwillingness to try new things... like not have modeling anymore and keep twirling stuck in the 50s! But that's another thread.

Not wanting to stir up any more conflict on this topic, but my friend and I got our sanction for the contest we co run and in the paperwork there was a note attached.

It said...

"Alert - Official state and regional contests provide important titles for their winners.


Because traditional facilities may not be available in summer 2009, it has not yet been determined if and where a national contest will be held."

I don't know what that actually means....but thought I would pass it along.

I know there are other contest directors who are posting on here - so maybe they also got this info w/ their sanction papers?????

Any one care to comment???

Also, people need to get rid of the tent villages that are erected inside the facility.

I'd love a place where tent villages are not needed and dressing rooms are available. If this sport is to be taken seriously, the officials need to look out for their athletes.

The crazy thing about tent villages is that people who erect them act like they own that spot and if you are walking through that area you get dirty looks from them. Sometimes I can't find a decent path to walk through because so many people take up those areas. I blame both AYOP and the owners of those tents.
As long as I'm on a roll I will also complain about the newspaper schedule and lack of them. You would think they would make enough for everyone. If you are not there by Tuesday morning 7:00 a.m. you will not find one. Here is a suggestion, how about people who paid money to twirl get one in the mail or they have them set aside in the monogram room and you have to register to pick on up?

A solution may be to scale down AYOP, if some or all of the Joyce Center is under renovation. Maybe just have the pageants, Grand Nationals, and Advanced opens with the Final twirl-offs?

It just seems so unfair to the girls.

I must speak up in defense of the "tent villages"-I prefer to call them "Camps". Many of the great teams are known for their "group camps" especially in the field house. Many of us feel they are part of the "Family" fun of AYOP. It allows people to set up a "home away from home" so to speak. With the long days at AYOP it is impossible to run back to the hotel to rest, eat and change.
Did someone say somthing about dressing rooms? For hundreds of people? What facility, any where in our country has that happening? We are not allowed to use the locker rooms at ND.
AYOP stands for America's Youth On Parade. Heavy on the YOUTH word. Try to think of it as indoor tail gate party, for kids!
DM

There is nothing wrong with the tent villages or camps. I agree we need a place where we can connect with our teammates and to rest.

......Did someone say somthing about dressing rooms? For hundreds of people? What facility, any where in our country has that happening? We are not allowed to use the locker rooms at ND.
AYOP stands for America's Youth On Parade. Heavy on the YOUTH word. Try to think of it as indoor tail gate party, for kids!.................

I still think dressing rooms need to be provided. We have young girls who are required to change costumes doing so in public. Dressing rooms would be a sign that there is respect for these athletes and twirling. When do you see football players, hockey, gymnasts changing in halls where anyone can walk by?

^Part of that is the sheer number of AYOP participants, and it was busier in the past so there would've been even less changing room. Last time I was at AYOP (2007), they were renovating the stairs, so no one ever seemed to be in the women's restroom up on the second floor by the athletic apparel store. I was in there several times, and it was practically a private (as private as AYOP gets) changing area.

I have no real complaints. I grew up with AYOP every summer and feel a certain sense of withdrawal when I decide not to go.

Off topic but: The Tent Cities take up space for walking and crucial warm-up space. The Notre Dame staff (having talked to some of them) hate these things. Not to mention, if everyone that attended did this, there would be no room to compete. I have been attending AYOP even before it was moved to Notre Dame and this situation never happened years ago and there were lots more people. We are all in the same situation regarding being away from home, but we are at a National Championship. Its not home. It would be nice for all competitors to be able to rest.

ABC & NBTA are linked, right? So I think ABC won't want to fly all those batons, shoes, shirts etc that they make big bucks selling in the Monogram rm out to Vegas or CA? I'm thinking they would rather keep it somewhere they can drive their truck to from WI? Maybe somewhere they can drive to in a day?

touchdown1 wrote:

The Notre Dame staff (having talked to some of them) hate these things.

Not to mention that it is also a fire hazard. They do keep the immediate doorways pretty clear lately (not completely though) but to even get to the doors would be a nightmare! Imagine sitting in the metal bleachers on the ice rink side, say on the end opposite of the directors tables (near to the food concession)...the closest door has no clear path wider than 2' (and that one weaves) to get to the door adjacent to the sales shop. So the 50-60 people who are usually sitting in that half of those bleachers would be trampling over the chairs that line the end of the skating rink (probably 10-15' deep). At least at the other end the school has started to set up "areas" for the chairs/tents, though people still ignore them.

Technically "tent" and "camps" ARE very much a part of "the topic" as much as parking, food, hotel rooms and other such trifles that are a part of the human factor of AYOP.
Yes, the staff at AYOP is not happy about the "camps" and last year they began to crack down on what was allowed on the floors and hallways. Yet, it is still okay to hang gowns on the bleachers and store sceanery in the halls-
All of this is part of AYOP.

My two cents on the tent cities - hate them personally but I take the point that it's a long day to sit in the bleachers or the arena seats. The changing tents you see up against the walls aren't the problem, they're not in anyone's way and I guess they keep the changing areas clearer for the rest of us. A few chairs in a row would be fine too, but not those huge circles of them like wagons round the campfire blocking off any way through the fieldhouse. They seem to get worse every year. So when you put out your chair or blanket just be respectful, look around you to make sure you're leaving people somewhere to walk through and not causing a fire hazard. Or maybe walkways could be roped off like they do around the lanes.

Wherever we end up for 2009, I doubt they will allow us to spread out our belongings on this scale - which leads us back to the topic -where do you think that will be?

Another question is with NBTA's lack of communication in the past, how do you think they will announce it to everyone? Through the mail?or just word of mouth? etc.....

I assume they will announce it in Drum Major Magazine.

New Drum Major arrived today with all the AYOP results. Not one word about next year. So-not in this month's edition!

awwwwww man. I think it is definitely a good idea to post what is going on with AYOP for next year in the drum major, but that still wouldn't reach anyone. The only way they would have really got the word out to all the AYOPers is by announcing it at nationals this past summer. It will be interesting to see how people will find out and how much confusion there will be. I hope it all works out though!